Fantasy Annual Number 1993
An Actress As Activist
Shabana Azmi, a great actress of the screen and theatre, a social
activist, is a fighter for the cause of the down-trodden. She grew up in the
company of Sardar Jafri, Balraj Sahni, Niyaaz Haider and people like them, her
father was a party whole-timer, her mother was the bread earner. Recently she
was in Delhi
after a three month long hectic tour of South East Asia
and United States
where she staged 22 shows of ‘Tumhari Amrita’. SHAMSUL ISLAM talks to her on
issues other than film life. An excerpt of the exclusive interview.
Shams: As an actress and social activist, you must
love to be in news, however, recently you were in news surrounded by
controversies, your film “Dharavi” was taken off, you were described as an
agent of the Muslim League and anti-national. How do you react to these
allegations?
Shabana: All these developments have been very
torturing for me. I was branded a Musalman for the first time in whole of my
life. It has shocked me immensely. If you ask me what is my identity, I will
say, I am a woman, an Indian, an actress, a social activist, a daughter, a
mother and a Muslim. But now there is a systematic attempt to compress my
identity into the confines of religion. All other aspects of my personality are
to be written off. I am reduced to being a Muslim only. Makes one to weep.
Shams: Whom do you hold responsible for such a
scenario?
Shabana: Let me tell you a very interesting fact.
Fanatic and fundamentalist Muslims have always branded me as enemy number one.
And now Hindu fundamentalists are targeting me. It gives me immense strength
and faith in my cause. It proves that I am on the right path. I feel happy that
both brands of fundamentalism find me inconvenient.
I also feel that practitioners of the politics of
communal hatred have nothing to do with their respective religions. The
politics of communal hatred is only a political and ideological method for mass
mobilization, a short cut for securing the seat of power at Delhi. It is true that deep communal
polarization has taken place specially of the middle classes.
However, let us not forget that, whatever may be
the scenario today, it is not going to sustain for long. Nobody can wipe out
this reality of the Indian life that a Madrasi Hindu is closer to Madrasi
Muslim than a Bihari Hindu. That is true of Bengali Hindus and Muslims or of
any other place in the country. Any politics or policy which contravenes these
essential realities can not go beyond a point. All Muslims could not keep Pakistan one,
it has split already one and there is no guarantee that it will not split in
many more in future.
Shams: Such attacks must have demoralized you to
some extent?
Shabana: Absolutely not! It has given me more
courage and resolution. If people like me are being singled out for attack,
that shows, we are proving a stumbling block in their nefarious designs. They
cannot succeed if we are there, so they get mad and play all kinds of dirty
tricks. I am sure if we had been arm-chair intellectuals they would not have
bothered about us. We are literally on roads, organizing people against all
kinds of injustices so we become enemies number one. It is sure I am not going
to run away.
Shams: Isn’t it really strange that forces so
unreal and unnatural to Indian way of life are in driver’s seat and setting
national agenda?
Shabana: Unfortunately that is the reality at
present. It is due to the failure of secular forces. Problem with the secular
forces has been that they have been preaching to converts. The secularists are
so sure of their truthfulness that they keep to themselves. Their normal
approach is that communal forces are indulging in naked lies. It is of no use
countering them, as people will themselves know the truth. It only encourages the
communal propaganda. We should make all efforts to mobilize the silent majority
which is basically secular. I also feel that only anti-communal slogans will
not do. The whole fight will have to be related to the issues of social
justice.
Shams: Do you also feel that majority communalism
and minority communalism are different in essence and nature?
Shabana: I do not subscribe to this view. Both
kinds of communalism are one and same. They are each others best friends. When
they confront each other they in fact help each other to grow. It is like a see-saw
game. Any meaningful fight against communalism has to confront each of these
simultaneously.
Shams: How do you take the ongoing debate on the
issue of “Talaq” among Muslims?
Shabana: It is a welcome development. It has given
the Muslim women a historic opportunity to put across her point of view against
barbaric practice of unilateral Talaq. Triple Talaq in Islam is unjust, unfair
and prejudicial to woman. The situation must change. I believe the greater
challenges to Muslim community arise from within than from outside. Infact I
have been pleading for ‘uniform civil code’ for all in order to secure justice
for women of the country.
Shams: So you are also for the BJP agenda on this
issue?
Shabana: Please do not jump on hasty conclusions.
There is no denying the fact that all religious personal laws including Muslim
personal law are not based on equality and gender justice. There are not only
Muslim women who suffer under such personal laws. Hindu, Sikh and Christian
women have the same fate. Perhaps many people do not know that a Hindu family
is also regulated by Hindu personal laws which are against Hindu women. When I
talk of uniform civil code it will not be Hindu personal law universalized as
uniform civil code. The uniform civil law will be a secular, scientific law
against all religious personal laws. This must uphold the dignity of women and
treat them at par with men. I do not think the BJP will opt for such a uniform
civil code.
Shams: These days we hear about your social
activism only. Have you taken off from your acting career?
Shabana: I am an actress first. However, an artist
cannot keep her or his eyes shut to whatever is happening around. Artists are
very sensitive people. They cannot remain neutral when a crisis in society is
growing. Art and culture minus social concerns will not lead us anywhere; Let
me tell you, inspite of my social activism, I am fully occupied with my acting
work.
For the last three months I was touring South East Asia and USA performing the play “Tumhari
Amrita” with Farookh Sheikh. We performed in 22 cities with packed houses. I do
not think it was a small project. After my return I am heavily booked for the
next six months. I will not be able to return to Bombay till then due to outdoor shootings. My
social activism is the outcome of my social philosophy. Nobody should think
that I am taking less interest in acting.
Shams: At one time you were a leading light of the
Indian art cinema, but, nothing is heard about it these days. What happened?
Shabana: it is true that art cinema is no more
around. It is not only in India,
but throughout the world. The days of art cinema seem to be over. From China to
America it is the cinema of Dhishum-Dhishum which is in vogue. Let me also say
that I am not against any type of cinema. People should be left free to make
whatever kind of film they want to make. We should also leave on to people
whatever they want to see pornography or aesthetically better cinema. Coming
back to art cinema, I feel the most important reason for failure of art cinema
has been that we could not build up an appropriate network of distribution. We
had been requesting National Film Development Corporation (NFDC) that please do
not produce films, there are people who will continue making good films, you
open small auditoriums for screening. But they paid no heed. The result was art
cinema packed in cans. This scenario discouraged producers, directors and
actors, faced with such a situation the group which pioneered art cinema was
bound to disintegrate. Today it is only amongst actors that zeal for art cinema
still exists. The producers and directors for quite obvious and natural reasons
have withdrawn.
Shams: You have acted in more than 100 films, which
one do you rate as your best?
Shabana: I treat “Khandhar” as my best film.
However, it was not seen by many people. See, I observe my performance very
critically. In this film, I found my portrayal having minimum shortcomings.
This film comes just after “Mandi”. Therein I had a very loud role. I was doing
dadagiri in “Mandi”. On the contrary in “Khandhar” I played a very subdued role
which I liked.
It is another story that I got national award for
the role in “Khandhar”. More than this I can never forget that Asmat Chughtai,
the great Urdu writer saw this film three times in continuity. She was there in
matinee, evening and night show the same day.
Shams: Who is your favourite male actor?
Shabana: Naseeruddin Shah always and forever! There
is no other actor gifted and talented like him. You will be surprised to know
that we never meet outside shooting schedules. It is a very strange kind of
relationship. We spend lots of time on sets together. We do not feel like
meeting outside.
Shams: How is your marriage with writer Javed
Akhtar faring?
Shabana: It is all love and affection for each
other. We live together for very short periods. After January, I was with him
in July and after July we will have chance to stay together around December.
Perhaps bond of marriage remains strong because we meet for short periods. (laughs)
isn’t it?
Shams: Your father Kaifi Azmi is a great Urdu poet.
How do you like his poetry?
Shabana: You will ask no questions if I tell you
that I know very little of Urdu.
Shams: It really sounds strange, isn’t it?
Shabana: That is true but it is also a fact that
whenever Abbu (father) composes a new poem, I am the first person to listen to
the recitation. I may not be knowing Urdu but he feels that I have a very
sensitive ear for Urdu poetry. I do not know if he says so out of love for his
daughter. However, it is true if I object to a word or a metaphor in his poetry
he does change that.
Shams: Who are the other poets you like most?
Shabana: I love to read and hear Nida Fazili’s
poetry. I greatly love Gulzar’s poetry also. I appreciate Javed’s poetry also.
His poetry is very young. He started composing around 1980 that is the time he
met me also. I can’t say if I was the source off inspiration (she laughs)
greatness of his poetry is that he writes in very simple language and metaphor
of his poetry is very new and innovative.
Shams: Do you regularly see Doordarshan?
Shabana: I never commit that blunder.
Shams: What else do you want to achieve in your
life?
Shabana: I want to act in films, theatre and make
myself useful in making a world in which there is no exploitation, that’s all.
[The print version carried fours photographs of
Shabana Azmi participating in different social struggles]
